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2011 GT Brembo vs non-Brembo stopping distance

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Old 10/25/10, 03:46 PM   #1
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2011 GT Brembo vs non-Brembo stopping distance

I had read various posts where the stopping distances were basically similiar. Some said a foot or two difference in the 60-0mph test. Idea was that Brembo brakes main advantage is to prevent brake fade on the track. Well I propagated this idea on another forum without any real data to back it up. I was met with opposition also without data. So, I did a quick search on road tests and here is what I found:

Here's a Brembo package 2011 GT tested by Mototrend. 60 to 0 stopping distance is 105 ft.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes...ling_price.html

Here's a 2011 GT California Special. Brembo package is not available with this option. CS package is all asthetics. 60 to 0 stopping distance is 117 ft.
http://www.insideline.com/ford/mustang/201...-camaro-ss.html


Granted, this is a sample set of only two. I'm not going to take the time to look up any more tests. 12 ft is nothing to sneeze at. I wonder how much of that is due to the sticky summer Brembo tires and not the brakes?
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Old 10/25/10, 03:53 PM   #2
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Brembo calipers have 4 pistons, two on each side of the rotor and a slightly larger rotor instead of two pistons on one side of the rotor on a standard GT, this is where the additional brake force comes from. This is the biggest factor in stopping distance as well as fade.
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Old 10/25/10, 03:59 PM   #3
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there are times where i drive my car VERY hard on the twisties. i could not do it as hard with stock brakes. have yet to fade the brembos. its there if i need it.
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Old 10/25/10, 03:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertMustang View Post

Granted, this is a sample set of only two. I'm not going to take the time to look up any more tests. 12 ft is nothing to sneeze at. I wonder how much of that is due to the sticky summer Brembo tires and not the brakes?
It's not 12 feet. You're comparing tests from two different drivers on two different days. The real world difference between a brembo car and a non-bremo car is only a couple of feet on the first stop. The upgraded tires on the brembo car is accounting for that slightly shorter stopping distance. The brembo equipped car will be more consistent with its stopping distance over reapeated attempts.
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Old 10/25/10, 04:02 PM   #5
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Tires probably play most of the difference there but keep in mind also that road conditions affects stopping distance too. Probably most of that is simply the tires, but you could look up Tirerack.com or something and see their ratings to see how that stacks up. Theoretically the Brembos could reduce stopping distance by grace of less brake fade, but generally speaking you won't see any noticeable brake fade with brakes under normal driving conditions, especially with just one 60-0 stop. Not to say that it's impossible, but they'd have to be some really sorry brakes to have significant brake fade during a single 60-0 stop.

To offer more detail, consider what happens when you slam the brakes on any car hard enough, you brake traction and start to skid, or you notice the anti-lock brakes kicking in. At this point you have exceeded the gripping capability of the tires, but also note that you can do this with regular brakes as well as Brembos. Both can lock up the wheels (generally), and there's really no way you can get more braking power from calipers when you're already locking the wheels. The limiting factor in this case is simply tire traction, as it can't get enough of a grip to take full advantage of the brakes.

The brakes themselves only start to get better results as they heat up and tire traction actually starts to exceed your braking power. This will be much harder to achieve with the Brembos by their design, but even regular brakes shouldn't reach this point under normal driving conditions, in theory, as that's what they're designed for. Sure they probably won't last on the track, but them's the brakes.

There's a lot of other factors to this that can affect the outcome, but that's a basic overview.

Last edited by Lancel; 10/25/10 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 10/25/10, 04:11 PM   #6
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Tires probably play most of the difference there......
This. The Brembo package Mustang had high performance summer-only tires on with pretty high levels of dry warm weather grip. The C/S would be on skinnier all-season tires with less grip. Put the same tires on each, and that could explain the difference and then some. One of the main advantages the Brembo brakes have is in fade resistance when the brakes start to heat up.
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Old 10/25/10, 05:54 PM   #7
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Swept area, caliper design, pad compound, construction of the flex lines & fluid rating will all add or detract from braking performance. The 5.0 bets the M3 in braking & as far as I'm concerned wins this match. In case you haven't seen this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOwSPccbzl4
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Old 10/25/10, 06:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slidejob View Post
Swept area, caliper design, pad compound, construction of the flex lines & fluid rating will all add or detract from braking performance. The 5.0 bets the M3 in braking & as far as I'm concerned wins this match. In case you haven't seen this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOwSPccbzl4
Quite right, though the increased diameter of the Brembo pack rotors does give greater torque from the brake pads. Should offset any increase in rotational inertia that the larger diameter gives, as well. The tires, swept area/ton, pads and then the rest are most responsible for the single stop test. Pads, fluid, rotor/caliper mass, brake ducting all play a role in fade resistance and repeatability.
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Old 10/25/10, 06:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i3arracuda View Post
It's not 12 feet. You're comparing tests from two different drivers on two different days. The real world difference between a brembo car and a non-bremo car is only a couple of feet on the first stop. The upgraded tires on the brembo car is accounting for that slightly shorter stopping distance. The brembo equipped car will be more consistent with its stopping distance over reapeated attempts.
++1.
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Old 10/25/10, 07:15 PM   #10
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If you want to track your car, splerg for the Brembos.

If you will only drive your car on the street, get the standard brakes.
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Old 10/25/10, 07:34 PM   #11
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but the brembos are just so pretty...lol
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Old 10/25/10, 07:40 PM   #12
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but the brembos are just so pretty...lol
While they may look "pretty", they are ment to stop the car better under hard use. I personally would not pay $1,500 for just "pretty" brakes.
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Old 10/26/10, 12:19 AM   #13
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While they may look "pretty", they are ment to stop the car better under hard use. I personally would not pay $1,500 for just "pretty" brakes.
But the Brembo package involves more than that.
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Old 10/26/10, 08:12 AM   #14
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But the Brembo package involves more than that.
Most notably the wheels which are very "pretty".
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Old 10/26/10, 08:35 AM   #15
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show me

Quote:
Originally Posted by i3arracuda View Post
It's not 12 feet. You're comparing tests from two different drivers on two different days. The real world difference between a brembo car and a non-bremo car is only a couple of feet on the first stop. The upgraded tires on the brembo car is accounting for that slightly shorter stopping distance. The brembo equipped car will be more consistent with its stopping distance over reapeated attempts.
Regarding the first stop distance: I'm from Missouri... show me.
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Old 10/26/10, 09:23 AM   #16
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Regarding the first stop distance: I'm from Missouri... show me.
That's cool. I'm pretty sure the laws of physics still apply in Missouri, state motto notwithstanding.
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Old 10/26/10, 10:07 AM   #17
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I think someone said it best when they said, "those of us with Brembos, look down upon those without Brembos"...
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Old 10/26/10, 10:31 AM   #18
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Why do people constantly insist that rotor composition/size and caliper composition/size have anything to do with stopping distances? A single-pot caliper on a 9" rotor is sufficient to lock the front wheels of the mustang up.

TIRES are what determine your stopping distance, not power behind the brakes.

Now, the 15th time in a row you are stopping from high speeds is what make the Brembos more desirable. Increased rotor diameter results in a greater torque arm per given unit of applied force - this results in a lighter brake pedal with easier modulation. Number of pistons really only affects how even the pads wear, and modulation ability at the limit (how easy it is to toe the line with locking the wheels at the threshold). Stainless lines will also make a big impact on pedal feel.

Stop saying the Brembos will make you stop faster in one panic stop on the highway. They don't. The Summer-compound tires do.
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Old 10/26/10, 10:45 AM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by hawkeye18 View Post
Why do people constantly insist that rotor composition/size and caliper composition/size have anything to do with stopping distances? A single-pot caliper on a 9" rotor is sufficient to lock the front wheels of the mustang up.

TIRES are what determine your stopping distance, not power behind the brakes.

Now, the 15th time in a row you are stopping from high speeds is what make the Brembos more desirable. Increased rotor diameter results in a greater torque arm per given unit of applied force - this results in a lighter brake pedal with easier modulation. Number of pistons really only affects how even the pads wear, and modulation ability at the limit (how easy it is to toe the line with locking the wheels at the threshold). Stainless lines will also make a big impact on pedal feel.

Stop saying the Brembos will make you stop faster in one panic stop on the highway. They don't. The Summer-compound tires do.
Truth!

If you can make your wheels lock up (that is, get your ABS to kick in) on your stock brakes, then you will not see benefit from upgrading brakes. The only situation where you would notice a difference is:

* If you are going so fast that you slam on your brakes 100% and the wheels continue turning (i.e., they don't lock up and ABS does not kick in)
-- THEN having bigger and better brakes will help you slow down quicker in that specific scenario

* Also bigger rotors will fade less over time, in long track sessions, because they can absorb more heat.

But any time you slam on your brakes and your car skids to a stop with wheels locked or ABS engaged - you are being limited by your tires, not your brakes.
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Old 10/26/10, 11:17 AM   #20
 
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Where is the "Beating a dead horse" smiley?
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