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Old 8/31/05, 06:05 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by TKEUofM@August 29, 2005, 11:34 AM
......This rotational weight reduction alone is responsible for gains of 15+ rear wheel horsepower.
I am surprised that someone hasn't caught this yet. The replacement of the driveshaft will not give you a horsepower gain. It might reduce vibration, but then again it might increase it too for that matter. Acceleration would be a very tiny bit better due to a small reduction in mass and rotating mass, but no horsepower gain could be had. If you were recovering 15 horsepower out of your driveline, you would find that your stock driveline would be getting very hot.
Each horsepower is equal to 745 watts. 15 horsepower is 11,200 watts, which would be the same as about two burners on your stove running on high! Check under your car after a good run and see if any of the U-joints are getting hot, except in a minor way. I'll bet you could not feel much of a difference between your floorboard and your driveshaft.
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Old 8/31/05, 06:16 PM   #42
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Now I'm not a drive shaft professional but here's my take on it. The heavier the driveshaft the more power it takes to get it moving, if you have the same amount of power and reduce the weight that means less power is lost getting the drive shaft spinning. That means more power is available to go to the rear wheels.
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Old 8/31/05, 06:18 PM   #43
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Hayburner


Get out of the thread. Charity is a great thing to do and I am very happy you seemed to have completely and utterly dedicated yourself to it. There are many groups of people out there who need major help and please go help them with donations and time. But to bring that up when talking about driveshafts is ridiculous.

Shouldn't you cancel your internet and your HBO channels to save money so you can give it to charity?

Instead of buying your mustang shouldn't you have donated 20k more dollars to charity?

And then to give that stupid response of gold-plated headers is also ridiculous. Put things in perspective. For one person who seems to be telling that to everyone else, maybe you should try it out yourself.

169 is obviousely a generous person as is his family, but that does not mean charity has to extend to every facet of his life. Don't thread hijack and make a fool out of yourself. I've learned my lesson of that.
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Old 8/31/05, 09:38 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sonic Brew@August 31, 2005, 5:19 PM
Now I'm not a drive shaft professional but here's my take on it. The heavier the driveshaft the more power it takes to get it moving, if you have the same amount of power and reduce the weight that means less power is lost getting the drive shaft spinning. That means more power is available to go to the rear wheels.
The claim is that this driveshaft will magically give you 15 more horsepower. If you have ever seen a rear-wheel dynamometer at work, the operator gets things up to maximum power at wide-open throttle and the horsepower is measured. The rate that it takes you to get up to that final value of horsepower is not measured. If it takes 3.5 seconds or 7 seconds to get there, so be it.
Two factors would increase your vehicle acceleration. The rotational inertia of getting the driveshaft up to speed is one, but this is a minor factor. Compare the rotational inertia of a very small diameter driveshaft to the large diameter of the four wheels. By inspection, you should see that the driveshaft isn't a big player. In addition, the slight reduction in overall mass is also negligible. Theoretically, the car might accelerate faster, but I doubt that it is measurable, beyond driver variation run-to-run.
The claim the manufacturer is making of +15 horsepower to the wheels is patently false.
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Old 8/31/05, 11:16 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Badandy@August 31, 2005, 5:21 PM
Hayburner
Get out of the thread. Charity is a great thing to do and I am very happy you seemed to have completely and utterly dedicated yourself to it. There are many groups of people out there who need major help and please go help them with donations and time. But to bring that up when talking about driveshafts is ridiculous.

Shouldn't you cancel your internet and your HBO channels to save money so you can give it to charity?

Instead of buying your mustang shouldn't you have donated 20k more dollars to charity?

And then to give that stupid response of gold-plated headers is also ridiculous. Put things in perspective. For one person who seems to be telling that to everyone else, maybe you should try it out yourself.

169 is obviousely a generous person as is his family, but that does not mean charity has to extend to every facet of his life. Don't thread hijack and make a fool out of yourself. I've learned my lesson of that.
Badandy...
Maybe you should promote your self to moderator(perhaps in your mind you already have).Yes...driveshafts are a very important topic.
You want to put things "IN PERSPECTIVE"??? Great.
The country takes a huge hit and you drool about carbon fiber driveshafts. A million of your fellow Americans lose everything they ever had and I've lost my perspective about driveshafts. Maybe some thought about a national emergency and helping out a little does not qualify as hijacking a thread. Cars are a fun hobby and I like Mustangs as much as the next guy. Before you throw stones at my right to believe(and say so) that a carbon fiber drive shaft is a strange priotity and a waste especially now , just take a second and THINK
before you write that check. There are times/events in history that hijack threads on their own and command people's attention. Maybe this is one of those times. I invite the truly self-absorbed to flame away....
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Old 8/31/05, 11:40 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by 169stang@August 31, 2005, 5:04 PM
You act like you were working across the street from my house and you have no clue as to how far I look outside my property line or how many bags of clothes we've sent to LA, MS. My wife is a social worker so I think you don't know what the heck you're talking about. I'll tell you what...We can go to the support the hurricane disaster thread and discuss it. I think I'd like to talk about driveshafts in this particular one. Wrong place, wrong time there. There's no way that you could possibly think this is the correct place to discuss the hurricane.
So then...ask your wife ,the social worker, if this is a great time to run out and buy a carbon fiber drive shaft.
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Old 9/1/05, 01:02 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sonic Brew@August 30, 2005, 11:14 AM
Anyone know if you can stop by the BMR shop?, I think its about a half hour away from me.
Its just off I-75, take the Fowler exit east to the tee. Make a left and its a mile or so on the right. Pretty small sign so look for it.
P-R
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Old 9/1/05, 01:11 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gearhead@August 31, 2005, 8:08 PM
I am surprised that someone hasn't caught this yet. The replacement of the driveshaft will not give you a horsepower gain. It might reduce vibration, but then again it might increase it too for that matter. Acceleration would be a very tiny bit better due to a small reduction in mass and rotating mass, but no horsepower gain could be had. If you were recovering 15 horsepower out of your driveline, you would find that your stock driveline would be getting very hot.
Each horsepower is equal to 745 watts. 15 horsepower is 11,200 watts, which would be the same as about two burners on your stove running on high! Check under your car after a good run and see if any of the U-joints are getting hot, except in a minor way. I'll bet you could not feel much of a difference between your floorboard and your driveshaft.
True,
This will not increase horsepower at the flywheel. However it will increase it at the rear wheels. The same way that using smaller pullies will increase horsepower at the rear wheels. It will take less HP to turn the shaft.
P-R
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Old 9/1/05, 02:35 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gearhead@August 31, 2005, 9:41 PM
The claim is that this driveshaft will magically give you 15 more horsepower. If you have ever seen a rear-wheel dynamometer at work, the operator gets things up to maximum power at wide-open throttle and the horsepower is measured. The rate that it takes you to get up to that final value of horsepower is not measured. If it takes 3.5 seconds or 7 seconds to get there, so be it.
Two factors would increase your vehicle acceleration. The rotational inertia of getting the driveshaft up to speed is one, but this is a minor factor. Compare the rotational inertia of a very small diameter driveshaft to the large diameter of the four wheels. By inspection, you should see that the driveshaft isn't a big player. In addition, the slight reduction in overall mass is also negligible. Theoretically, the car might accelerate faster, but I doubt that it is measurable, beyond driver variation run-to-run.
The claim the manufacturer is making of +15 horsepower to the wheels is patently false.

have you seen a dyno at work... most people that work with dyno's alot will tell you that the final hp means nothing, it is all about the power curve, meaning how much power is it making at all the rpms, thats why they do the runs in 4th gear 1:1 and run them from about 2k-redline, the whole spectrum is very important to the performance. Two identical cars can weight the same and make 400 hp, one with a 500 c.i big block and the other with a 302 c.i. small block, still think that just cause they both made 400 peek hp that thats all that matters.... the big block will kill the small block as it will more likely make a much better power curve.
Btw, i am not discounting your opinion on the performance gain of the shaft, that i dont know but there is definatly more to dynoing then peek hp
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Old 9/1/05, 08:38 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by pocket-rockets@September 1, 2005, 12:14 AM
True,
This will not increase horsepower at the flywheel. However it will increase it at the rear wheels. The same way that using smaller pullies will increase horsepower at the rear wheels. It will take less HP to turn the shaft.
P-R
Smaller pulleys allow the engine to deliver more power by reducing the parasitic drain of accessories.
The RATE that you get to the power curve MIGHT be slightly affected by a reduced rotational mass, but I doubt that you could measure it. Certainly, the power delivered at any specific RPM would not change.
If you think that this driveshaft can add 15 rear wheel horsepower, then where does the heat from the current driveshaft deposit itself?
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Old 9/1/05, 08:55 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by hayburner@August 31, 2005, 9:19 PM
Badandy...
Maybe you should promote your self to moderator(perhaps in your mind you already have).Yes...driveshafts are a very important topic.
You want to put things "IN PERSPECTIVE"??? Great.
The country takes a huge hit and you drool about carbon fiber driveshafts. A million of your fellow Americans lose everything they ever had and I've lost my perspective about driveshafts. Maybe some thought about a national emergency and helping out a little does not qualify as hijacking a thread. Cars are a fun hobby and I like Mustangs as much as the next guy. Before you throw stones at my right to believe(and say so) that a carbon fiber drive shaft is a strange priotity and a waste especially now , just take a second and THINK
before you write that check. There are times/events in history that hijack threads on their own and command people's attention. Maybe this is one of those times. I invite the truly self-absorbed to flame away....

I give time and money to charity so maybe you should think before you talk. I am not promoting myself to moderator, I just think to get mad at someone for saying your topic is off-topic in this thread is ridiculous. I work hard and I think I should be able to use my money on anything I want. If it is charity I should be able to do it. If it is a carbon fiber driveshaft, I am gooing to do it because I don't have any guilt buying myself something after giving money to charity and other good causes.

Just listen to yourself. You are getting mad at people for wanting an amenity or a luxery just because people in the world need help. We give money to charity, we give time and we help people. And you come here thinking I waste all my money on luxeries and am not compassionate. Again, think before you speak. If you want to really help and be the savior you think you are and how noone else who is interested in driveshafts are, why are you on the internet talking to me? I bet your time would be better spend in New Orleans helping out or cancelling your internet to save money to give. And don't say you are on the internet only to get people to give to charity, what are you doing on a Mustang site?


Don't go on your charitable tirade again without knowing anything on what we do or how we want to spend our money. You are really speaking out of place and I hope you just realize it.
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Old 9/1/05, 08:58 AM   #52
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Wow, I opened this thread to show a new part that I found while surfing......


I didn't think that it would turn into a Political/humanitarian debate and an argument about physics.

Just look at the picture and say....... "Cool, I want one".

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Old 9/1/05, 09:18 AM   #53
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That's what I'm trying to do. But some have to ruin it for all of us and insist on insulting both me and 169 and I'm going to stand up for myself and point out his ignorance.



And yes, oooh, I want one.
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Old 9/1/05, 09:33 AM   #54
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The carbon fiber drive shaft will definetly make more RWHP....I posted this in the other thread but take a look at this article. This company specializes in carbon fiber for various appliacations and did and before and after dyno w/the carbon fiber drive shaft on a different vehicle. It seems they saw gains across the entire RPM range....

http://www.acpt.com/article1.html
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Old 9/1/05, 10:01 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by Badandy@September 1, 2005, 7:58 AM
I give time and money to charity so maybe you should think before you talk. I am not promoting myself to moderator, I just think to get mad at someone for saying your topic is off-topic in this thread is ridiculous. I work hard and I think I should be able to use my money on anything I want. If it is charity I should be able to do it. If it is a carbon fiber driveshaft, I am gooing to do it because I don't have any guilt buying myself something after giving money to charity and other good causes.

Just listen to yourself. You are getting mad at people for wanting an amenity or a luxery just because people in the world need help. We give money to charity, we give time and we help people. And you come here thinking I waste all my money on luxeries and am not compassionate. Again, think before you speak. If you want to really help and be the savior you think you are and how noone else who is interested in driveshafts are, why are you on the internet talking to me? I bet your time would be better spend in New Orleans helping out or cancelling your internet to save money to give. And don't say you are on the internet only to get people to give to charity, what are you doing on a Mustang site?
Don't go on your charitable tirade again without knowing anything on what we do or how we want to spend our money. You are really speaking out of place and I hope you just realize it.

Badandy...
This is a classic case of transference. I'm not the least bit mad.I've expressed an opinion, not a tirade. Never said anyone here is not charitable. You're getting a little defensive aren't you?
So what does this have to do with driveshafts?
Well, it's about priorities and my opinion is that this one is pretty low for me for the reasons I've expressed.We'll have to agree to disagree.
Enjoy your driveshaft.
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Old 9/1/05, 01:28 PM   #56
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I live in Florida, so I feel for the people. Does that mean I will drop everything to go there, no. The world keeps turing as they say.
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Old 9/1/05, 01:57 PM   #57
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by hayburner@September 1, 2005, 1:43 AM
So then...ask your wife ,the social worker, if this is a great time to run out and buy a carbon fiber drive shaft.
The one he has is broken and he is looking for a replacement...

Sure it's not on the level of people that have lost their homes, but it's not like he turned on the news and said "those poor people, I think I'm going to waste my money somewhere else."
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Old 9/1/05, 02:44 PM   #58
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Here's my deal with you hayburner:


""""Badandy...
This is a classic case of transference. I'm not the least bit mad.I've expressed an opinion, not a tirade. Never said anyone here is not charitable. You're getting a little defensive aren't you?
So what does this have to do with driveshafts?
Well, it's about priorities and my opinion is that this one is pretty low for me for the reasons I've expressed.We'll have to agree to disagree.
Enjoy your driveshaft.""""

I am not transfering anything. You are mad by the condescending way you treated both myself and 169 (although I do not speak for him, my observations). You have attacked us without knowing anything of what we do or how we give to people who are less fortunate. I am not getting defensive, I am just standing up against someone who is talking out of place. And don't misconstrue my words to think I am unsympathetic, I just don't think this was the thread to bring your hostile attitude in here. If you wanted to ask for charitable donations or just to make people think of what has happened to all of those people, get a mod to send a mass message for you or find something else that works. But to immediately attack somebody who wants a carbon fiber driveshaft because his broke is ridiculous. He has his life too, and however dire the situation is in New Orleans and Mississippi we are still allowed to buy whatever we want. I am thinking of those poor people, but I am not going to stop my life and not buy anything I don't NEED because of it. I can still talk about cool new driveshafts and I expect not to be attacked about it. So please, stop hating and try to approach this issue with a little bit of tolerance. I give to charity, a significant amount. I am not going to say more than that, all you need to know, is that I do my part and I don't need you to tell me that I don't or that I have to forego all luxeries because of the situation.

Don't misinterperet the tone of that post. I am not mad, I am merely explaining the situation. So I am just not going to argue with you anymore, because obviousely you just think you are superior to everyone else and you are an amazing person. Keep thinking that, but leave us "inferiors" out of it.






Badandy


PS: Now if YOU don't mind, I'd like to resume talking about modifications for my Mustang, on this Mustang site.
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Old 9/1/05, 03:55 PM   #59
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Keep the politics out.

This is about f*cking Mustangs.

There are other forums and chat channels to discuss non Mustang related topics !!
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Old 9/1/05, 04:05 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by hayburner@August 29, 2005, 9:55 PM
People are swimming down the street in New Orleans and we're talking about carbon fiber driveshafts for a thousand bucks?
A nation of strange priorities. Not here to throw stones...I've blown a lot of money on stupid stuff too, but where do we draw the line?

Not sure :scratch: ...I guess when I stuff one of my Race Horses into the engine bay for that last wanted pony.....I've drawn the line ?

Carbon Fiber Shaft....cant wait for your results David.
It's never over.
Now about that money tree
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